Interviewee: Jill Davis Interviewers: Sonny Calder, Olivia Réblé May 10, 2024

Sonny Calder:

Olivia Réblé

I am pleased to welcome Jill Davis, whom I am interviewing on behalf of the St. Helena Historical Society's Oral History Program.

We are conducting this interview at 4:12 pm on May 10, 2024, at 385 Clark Way, Angwin, California. Welcome, Jill. So, can you begin by telling us where you were born and when you first came to the St. Helena area?

Jill Davis: I was born in October- 25th, 1949. And I was born in Richmond, California. And my parents were both born in Richmond, California. So my family had been in California for a long time.

SC: Who else was in your family? Like, what were your parents' names, for example? JD: At the time, or ultimately? SC: Both.

JD: Okay, at the time. My mother's name was Ruth. And my father's name was Jack. And I had an older sister, named Sandy, who was born right before World War Two. My parents got married in 1941, which you may recall is the year the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.

They got married in November and so the harbor was bombed a month later. So my sister was born a year later. And then my father went off to war.

He was in the army. And he was in Europe, not in the South Pacific or anywhere else. He landed on D-Day, and then marched across Europe until the war ended. Then I was born after the war. So there's a gap of seven years between my sister and me. And then, a year and a half later, my brother Jack was born. And then, seven years later, my brother Shaun was born, and then five years later, my sister April was born. So there's 21 years between my two sisters.

SC: Were there any traditional first names in your family?

JD: No. My brother was named Jack after my father, but that was the only repeat name.

SC: And what type of work did your parents do?

JD: My mom was a stay at home mom, which she enjoyed very much. But during the war, when my father was away, she was a model for I. Magnin, which was a very kind of ritzy department store in San Francisco. And then she became an assistant buyer. And then after my dad came home, she wanted to stay home. She had a chance- they asked her to teach at a modeling school, but she really didn't want to do that, she wanted to stay home. So my dad had a number of jobs, he was mostly a blue-collar worker, I would say.

SC: Okay. And how did your parents meet?

JD: It was right after my mom graduated from high school. I know they went to high school at the same time, and he was two years ahead of her at Richmond High School. I don't know how they got together, I think a friend of theirs kind of got them together. And my mom told me that right when they first started dating, she was sitting in a car next to her friend and she said, “I'm going to marry that man.” [interviewers smile]

SC: What did your community/support system look like outside of your family? Who were your closest friends?

JD: My mom was raised kind of in a very fundamental Christian household

They went to church all the time. And then she dropped that for a time, and I know that her father, who was very religious, was upset that she was marrying my dad who wasn't affiliated with a church, and he wouldn't walk her down the aisle. So, her older brother, who was 12 years older than her, walked her down the aisle. So then when I was five years old, my mom went back to the church. So something- whatever happened, I don’t know why,

[laughter] And so we went to a fundamentalist Christian Church, which in some ways was good, because it was a support system, you know, you had people that you could turn to, I guess. But, there were a lot of things I didn't like about it, it was very judgmental, and that's probably enough. So then, after I went away to college, I quit going to church and dropped away from many of those beliefs.

SC: And that was a church here in St. Helena?

JD: No, the first one was in Richmond.

SC: Ah. JD: And then the second one was in Napa. After we moved to Napa, we quit going to the church in Richmond and went to a church in Napa.

SC: And can you tell me about your neighborhood? What was it like?

JD: When I was going into third grade, we moved to Pinole. And that was just the beginning of the tract houses that were built there, so we were in the first round of tract houses.

And it was the greatest way in the world to be raised at that time.

It was the baby boom, and so there were kids in every house in the neighborhood

And so there would be, at that time, there were four of us. And then the neighbor’s had three kids, people across the street had five kids, a low number would be two kids [laughter]. So you would just walk out the door, and play. And all the parents all the time would say- this was a line they said to their kids: ‘go outside and play.’ So we would go outside, and we had total freedom, we would just be- no supervision, nobody had cell phones or any way to track us and we would just go out, and go in the neighborhood, go in the hills, and play. One of the things I look back [on] and really liked about it was that there was nobody supervising us, so we created our own rules, and we created what was fair, and we would negotiate, and we would change the rules, and y’know we'd stick to them. And so it was this great way of learning a lot of skills, like democracy! [laughter]

And there was a lot of freedom too. That feeling that people were looking at you all the time and worrying about your welfare. I bet a lot of the moms were looking out the windows just to check on us, but we didn't have that sense. And so, I think we got a lot [of] learned independence, you know, it was good for us.

I have really fond memories of that neighborhood.

SC: Awesome. So you have a pretty varied family history based on your questionnaire, and I know you mentioned a little bit before, but can you just tell us a little bit about, like your American ancestral history? Past your great grandfather, if you know anything? JD: You know, I know quite a bit, I've done some research into that.

Well, let me just tell it all I guess. [laughter]

I know that my earliest ancestors came on the Mayflower.

And I have two people that came on the Mayflower that I'm directly descended from, and one other one that's related some side way. And then I also know I have got some history- the Mormon church does a whole bunch of genealogy work, and so I've got that and I've got people back to- well for sure the 17- I think the 1600s. And they were in the Carolinas, and then eventually Tennessee, and then eventually into Missouri.

And then I have another ancestor, direct ancestor, who was hired by the British to fight

He was from Germany, and he was hired to fight in the Revolutionary War on the side of the British. And then he was captured and put in a prisoner of war camp, from which he escaped, and then he ended up staying in the United States and had land in Virginia. And so my family was in Virginia for a while—descendants—that were on that property. And they were mostly farmers throughout the- going in all the censuses that I look at, many, many of them were farmers.

SC: And then you mentioned that your grandparents were all in California by 1920. Do you know why they migrated to California?

JD: I do. My mother's parents were both born in Kansas. And then my grandfather was working for the railroads, and he was transferred to a number of places. I know he was in New York for a while, and I know he was in Tacoma for a while. But, at least according to my mother, he had allergies. And so apparently, the Bay Area, the air had less pollens and so then that's why they moved there. And then she was born there.

SC: And then you mentioned, we kind of touched on this before, but you mentioned that you…

JD: Oh, you want the other side? My other grandparents?

SC: Oh, did I cut you off?

JD: So my father's side, because they came too, you know, we're all right about the same time.

My grandmother was born in Ireland. And when she was 10 years old, they immigrated to Canada, so that would have been in 1910.

And she had three brothers, and then she was the only girl. And they lived in [pause] Toronto until she was 17. And then, her older brother had come to Richmond, because they were trying to-

I read this whole history of Richmond one time and they were calling it the ‘Pittsburgh of the West.’

So they were trying to create this industrial city in Richmond, and a lot of people were moving there to work. And so I know that my great uncle moved there, and then eventually the family followed. So that's how they ended up in Richmond.

SC: Okay. Do you have any, like long standing family traditions of significance?

JD: No, I don't think so. Too many people went to church. [laughter] I think there was a strong Christian tradition on my mom's side, but not on my, not on my dad's side. SC: Okay. So, getting into kind of like your early life, adolescence, as a student, what sort of entertainment did you like? Or like, were there any staple TV shows or bands that you listened to?

JD: Oh my gosh, let's see. TV shows- in those days, there were three or four channels. And so everybody in the country was watching the same thing. So, I can remember Wagon Train was one of them that we watched; there were a lot of westerns: Maverick, Have Gun - Will Travel. [laughter] This cracks me up. What was the name of that guy? I can’t think of the other one.

So then, and when we were little, we watched the Mickey Mouse Club, the Mickey Mouse Club

It was on in the afternoon after school. And so, we really liked that because there wasn’t a lot- like, you guys can look at anything you want at any time. You can find cartoons, or you can find something for your age, but, for kids, there were a couple things after school and then on Saturday morning, there were cartoons. So we watched Bugs Bunny, and Daffy Duck and all those guys. And there was a show called Mighty Mouse, too, on Saturday morning. So we watched that, yeah. And then we got older, and we watched Star Trek- was when I was in high school. And then there was something called The Man from U.N.C.L.E. that was another kind of- they were spies, I think. So those are the ones I can think of offhand.

SC: And did you have any hobbies that you would like to mention? JD: I like to be outdoors a lot. And, I think I told you that, in the stuff I wrote down, that we lived on my uncle's sheep ranch for a year and a half in Napa. And so they had a horse, and so I rode their horse. And then when we moved to St. Helena, we had an acre and a quarter. So I got a horse that I paid for with my 4H money.

We, my brother and I, both had sheep in 4H. And so, I saved my money-

I always dreamed of having a horse. So I bought- I got one with my own money. And so I rode my horse a lot. That was it. We lived a little bit out in the country, and as I went through high school too.

The Beatles came out when I was a freshman in high school, and that was a really big deal.

It was as big as they talk about, you know, like, they were on The Ed Sullivan Show, and then everybody, you know- I didn't go crazy. I wouldn’t go crazy about them [intelligible] their screaming, and, I don’t know, crying. I didn't go to any of their shows. But, it was really- it was fun. And at that time, too, it was like, everybody in the country is united about it, you know. And so then, all the great bands that came out after that, there was really an exciting time for that.

And then when I was in college, you know, you would wait for the Rolling Stones album, or the Creedence Clearwater [Revival] album, and that was really fun.

SC: And did you collect anything? Baseball cards, or dolls, or anything like that when you were a kid?

JD: When I was a kid, no, but when I was older I started collecting tacky postcards

And so I have a tacky postcard collection. And all my friends started-whenever they travel, they would send them to me. I just organized them within this last year, so I was going through them and then reading the messages, and then organizing them according to who sent them and you know how I got them. You don't find tacky postcards like you used to. [Jill taps the table] They were all over the place. [laughter] But yeah, now they’re too tasteful. So I don't do that anymore, but it was really fun.

SC: [amused] What do you mean by tacky?

JD: When I was looking for the pictures for you guys, I came across a few. Here's the very first one I collected, it's ‘Jake the Alligator Man.’ Okay, here's one from Dr. Wilkinson's Hot Springs, that's in Calistoga. Another one of my favorites, that's the resurrection: Jesus is coming down and taking all the Christians up to heaven

And, this was another. Phantom Dream Car Crashes into a Wall of Televisions.

Olivia Réblé: And so your friends just knew that this, this was Jill's thing.

JD: Yeah. And so they would, they would send them to me.

SC: These are hilarious. JD: And then this one- there's a giant cow in North Dakota. When you're driving across- you see way in the distance- “What is that?” [Jill squints her eyes and places her hand horizontal to her forehead] And you get closer and closer. And it's giant. [hushed laughter] Maybe as big as my house, but it's big. So, those are tacky postcards. [laughter] SC: Those are pretty funny.

SC: [pause] Okay, so, tell me about the homes you grew up in. Did you move a lot?

JD: We did early on. So, I don't remember the first home in Richmond, but then we moved to ‘El Sobrante,’ which is really El Sobrante, but nobody called it that- called it ‘El Sobranie.’ And we lived on a hill, and we moved there when I was three. And we left probably when I was around eight. And once again, it was a similar thing where there were kids, and you would go outside and just find kids to play with and, you know, stay outside for a long time.

We were allowed to go way too young. I mean, just, on our own. And we talk about those days like oh, it should be like that, but both my older sister and my younger brother got hit by cars, just because- their, their judgment wasn't good!

My brother was five, and my sister was seven. So- they're fine. But, it was great on one hand, if you could dodge carsbut I guess I would- I remember somebody saying to me, “It's your turn next.” Uh oh. I don't know, maybe I was extra careful. [laughter]

SC: And, generally like, how was your houses like furnished? Like were they modern? Or did you guys stick to old houses?

JD: I’m not done with my houses I just realized. Then we moved to Pinole. And we had a really nice house, it was four bedrooms, hardwood floors, fireplace, was $16,000, and I just drove by it the last time I came home from Santa Barbara- I drove to look at it. It was the trashiest house in the neighborhood, it made me really sad. Everybody else’s houses looked okay and then- it'll come back around.

And then, we moved to my uncle's ranch when I was 12, I think. He was convinced, as many people were, that there was going to be an atomic war.

And so the reason we went- did I write that in when I answered those interview questions? The reason we went, which is so great because of the era, is my uncle started visiting my parents and he was convinced, as many people were, that there was going to be an atomic war.

And I can remember being really afraid of communists when I was a kid.

And the implication also was that if there were communists in your neighborhood, you would catch it, it was like a disease. So you were afraid of the whole concept. Oh, I just had a memory. We lived on this hill. And so, we would, we would ride wagons down the hill, whatever. And then, we would play with balls, like play baseball, and one time our ball rolled all the way down the hill, and then directly into one of the neighbor's yards. And we were afraid to go get it because there was a rumor they were communists. [laughter] So we left the ball in the yard, because it was too dangerous- we didn't know them either, we knew most of the other neighbors. So, there was this fear. And you had a fantasy, you wanted a bomb shelter, you know, if you could afford one.

But who could afford a bomb shelter? So my uncle would come around and he talked my parents into moving to his ranch so that when the atomic war came, we would all be living together and we could work together.

He already had chickens and a garden, and sheep, and a cow to milk. So my parents were- he convinced them. And so we moved to his ranch, and worked really hard with the sheep- shearing sheep and lambing season and other work that needed to be done. And it was a great experience, it really was. And I went to junior high, seventh grade, and half of eighth grade. but he was, he was very autocratic.

And so, they started looking for property and that's when they found our house in St. Helena

And so my mom got tired of sort of living under his thumb. And my parents liked the idea of living out in the country and raising your own food.  An old farmhouse that was built in 1858, so it was one of the first houses in the Valley [Napa Valley] and the family- the person who built it and his family, his name was Asa White, and he was the first Methodist minister in St. Helena. And so it was in their family until we bought it in 1963 for $15,000,.Our mortgage was $100 a month it was great for us to move to St. Helena.

SC: Does it still exist today?

So we were there for around twenty-five years

JD: Yeah, in fact, the people that bought it from my mom in 19- when she sold it in 1987, I think, and the same people still own it.

SC: Hm. And where did you spend most of your time when you were a kid? JD: Outside. SC: Were you and your siblings close? JD: Yes, we were. I wasn't so close to my older sister, she was seven years older than me. And she wasn’t very nice to me. [laughter] We're really close now. And then my brother and I were close, we were the ones that were only eighteen months apart. And so we enjoyed each other. And then my next brother, he’s seven years later. And then my little sister, I was fourteen, I was in high school when she was born. So, there was a good connection among all of us, but not- like you couldn't really play with the little ones and my sister didn't really play with my brother and I.

But I would say we were close, and we still are.

SC: What were mealtimes like in your family?

And when I was five, my mom got very interested in health foods. So, she would make her own bread

JD: Oh, we had all the meals together, except for lunch because we would be away, so we had dinner together every night. and also every night there would be a meat and then there would be some kind of a starch, like potatoes or rice, and then some kind of greens, like a salad or something like that.

And that was, you know, there was a lot of variation, but that was pretty much- and then when we moved to St. Helena, we started, you know, growing vegetables and eating those and we bought a cow too,

I had to milk the cow every night all the way through high school. And my brother milked her in the morning so we had our own milk, and cream, and butter.

SC: And do you know why that like ‘health fad’ came about? Was there any reason? Was it like a popular thing?

JD: No, it wasn't. I think it was my uncle again, with his- this was a good thing he did. [laughter] He was just very interested in health, and feeding his family well and having as much of your own homegrown food as you could and so- I didn't know anybody else around us who were interested in that.

SC: What holidays did your family celebrate?

JD: The American holidays, nothing fancy. [laughter] So, Christmas, Thanksgiving, and we would get together for those, like we didn't make a big deal out of Fourth of July or any of the other ones, but those two.

And Halloween was great when we were kids, until we moved to the ranch, but you know [intelligible] tract neighborhood- once again, no supervision, you go out as long as you want and bring in the riches of the sugar kind. [laughter]

SC: Did you have any pets?

JD: Yes, we had dogs. Usually. Through- from the time I was little- and usually a cat. They always stayed outside though, there was nothing- there was no sleeping with your dog. Actually, that's not true. I used to sleep- we had a little Dachshund that I can remember sleeping with- and a cat. Some of our first pets just wandered into our lives. You know, we had a dog named Hobo, because he just showed up.

Then, I raised guide dogs for the blind when I was in 4H

And then that little Dachshund would kind of move around from neighbor to neighbor.. So, when I was in high school, maybe earlier than that, I started in eighth grade, I think. In 4H you do projects, and so one of them was sheep, that I did from the time I was in seventh grade, and then, I wanted to do this one [unintelligible] called Guide Dogs for the Blind and you would raise a puppy until it was a year, eighteen months or so, and then give it back to Guide Dogs.

But then I had my golden that lived to be fifteen, her name was Kelly, and she was like, you know, the greatest dog in your life.

Your job was to acclimate it to living with a family- and to train it. So you train- obedience training. So, every week we would go to Napa for lessons in dog training. When I finished doing that, I got a golden retriever. I raised a black lab and I also raised a golden retriever. I had another yellow lab that Guide Dogs for the Blind was going to use for a breeding program, and so I raised him for a while. I hope you have one of those. [laughter] So, yeah, we had her. And then we had lots of cats that were just kind of out in the yard. What else?

Oh yeah, and then I had a duck. And I had- we had guinea pigs. I had a chipmunk when I was little and we had a hamster. Couple of- hamsters are boring pets. [collective laughter] Pretty sure I had one. [laughter] But, so, we had this one hamster- I was thinking about this the other night, I was trying to remember his name, I'll call my brother- but, he got loose one time. Somehow- he got out of the cage and we couldn't find him. And then a couple days later we found him on the front porch, and he was behind this [slight pause] chair, like some kind of piece of furniture, and he was not doing well. [laughter] He was passed out. [additional laughter] We brought him in and my mom got a hot water bottle. She put him on his back, on this hot water bottle, and in those days you didn't do compressions like you do now, but you did arms and legs, so she would take his little tiny legs like this- [Jill mimes the CPR motion with both hands, her index fingers and thumbs together, simulating holding the tiny legs of her hamster] and he lived! [relieved tone] [collective laughter]

SC: What type of clothes did you wear and like where did you shop? Was there like a- hot place to shop? [light laughter]

JD: I wouldn't call it hot. [collective laughter] I think- everybody that was kind of in the, you know- working class, or the middle class, we shopped at Penney’s, JCPenney’s and we shopped at Montgomery Wards. And- at least that’s where we shopped. And then there was- when we moved to St. Helena there was a store called Fashionland.

You know where those two pillars are when you first go into St. Helena, that kind of stick out into the street? [interviewers nod] That storage unit- do you really know? They’re like big, stone pillars and when people park there, you can see there’s all kinds of scratches on their cars- their cars have been scratched. You go just past that on the right. And the thing about that, the people in there were a little strange, you know? You felt like they were spying on you. And they would watch you the whole time you were shopping. And then they had a son, who was a little different, and he would sort of follow you around. [laughter] And so- it wasn’t a great place to shop.

SC: Did you have like- a signature style or anything like that? [light laughter]

JD: No. [laughter] SC: Your portrait is up in Vintage Hall. I believe that was from prom?

JD: No, no, no. Homecoming Queen. Yeah. There’s a big distinction! [light laughter]

SC: Okay. What was Homecoming like in high school? Like, you know, during your experience?

JD: Well, it was a big game that everybody tried to go to and people who had moved away, or gone to college, they would come home. And then at that time, the tradition was- you guys still have the parade in town, right? The Homecoming Parade? [interviewers nod] It was the same. And so, the Homecoming- there were two princesses and a Homecoming Queen. And we- oh, I have a picture! One of the ones I found- actually that was at the game. So you knew that you were the Homecoming Queen before the game, it wasn't announced at the game.

JD: I’m the one you can't see, [light laughter] because I'm waving. [points] I’m in the middle. Actually, I have another picture, but I couldn't find it. Short notice. So then you would go to the game, and ride around the track on the convertible. And then- oh gosh- then there was another part where- the car stopped. And then I was escorted across the field by this…guy.

And then I got to the other side, [light laughter] and the football player- he must have handed me something, he must have given me a bouquet of roses. And then, he kissed me on the cheek but he was still wearing his mouthpiece [laughter] to protect his teeth from the football game. So- [collective laughter] I got you to crack! [collective laughter] The tacky postcards almost did it! [collective laughter]

SC: Gender roles--girls couldn't play sports. To what extent do you think that affected your like, ‘K-12’ education?

JD: A lot. It's like the expectations were low for one thing, because- I can remember in seventh grade, you would have the- they would test you to see how far you could jump or how far you could run. And so, then we had the 600 yard- do you guys do the 600 yard? [interviewers shake their heads] Well, it was called the “walk-and-run” for the girls- because they didn't think we could run the whole way. [collective laughter] And so- I didn't!

I mean, [collective laughter] why not walk? And- and I actually think- I probably thought it would be too hard. Because even though I played outside all the time, you know, there wasn't any distance running or anything like that. And I was very athletic, and so I really would have loved to play sports.

We tried to get a track team for girls going

And there were some other girls and myself- I was a junior I think, and, because it was only boys. And so, we opportuned the track coach and said, “Hey, we really want to do this.” So, during one of the track meets, there were maybe- I don’t know- eight of us or so, and we ran a 50-yard dash. And he was just mollifying us, because then- that was it. All we did was run a 50 yard dash, at one track meet. [light laughter] And there weren't girls sports again for a long time. And then, the year I was a senior, they were building [pause] “the new school.”

So there was Vintage Hall, and then where Mr. O’s [Christopher O’Connor, the current Life Sciences teacher] class- those old horrible classrooms were there. [light laughter] And then- I think the other ones might be gone, there was another set of classes. And so, they were building the rest of the school, you know, the office, and you know the 300 wing, the 100, and the 200 wings. And in the middle of that, where you have the quad- the old gym was there.

Underneath they had- they were kind of these basement-y rooms that were the locker rooms, where we would- [laughter] they were- they were dingy, very dingy

That whole thing was just filled with a gym, that was ancient! It was all hardwood on the inside, like, all the bleachers were set, you know, they were built-in. So that's where we had all the basketball games. And so, we were expected to shower, at the time. You guys don't even think about showering, but it was a requirement.

I can remember in seventh grade when I went to junior high, the P.E. teacher would come around and watch us shower

I can remember in seventh grade when I went to junior high. It would be a group shower of maybe [slight pause] six girls or so? And she was being so careful about making [sure]- it’s creepy! [collective laughter] And- she would just stand there and watch. [laughter] So, nobody watched us this time [in high school] and we didn't have- well, we were supposed to shower unless we were on our periods. And so she would call your name, and she would say, “Sonny?” and you would say [light laughter] “S” if you had showered, and you would say “M, Wash Off” if you had not showered- if you were on your period?

SC: Why could you not shower if you were on your period?

JD: Well, people didn't have tampons in those days, or didn't use them. So we had these horrible things as an alternative. [light laughter] And so, you couldn't really get nude. That would have been the reason. Yeah. I always showered. [light collective laughter] For one thing I didn't want to lie, and another thing, I wanted to shower.

SC: What was it like to- did you attend your entire high school in Vintage Hall? Or mostly Vintage Hall? Like, all your classes were there?

JD: Oh- yeah. Mhm. Except for the outside ones. Like, we had science outside and then obviously P.E. outside. There were some other classrooms too, but we had a lot of them up there.

And there was no air conditioning, it was like, hot upstairs.

And then they'd open the windows and the bees would come in- the room. [light laughter] And you would get really sleepy too, because it was really hot. SC: Was your schoolwork challenging in high school? JD: Um, I was not a very dedicated student, so I would say no, for me. And then, the other people, I don't know. SC: Was there a lot of pressure, or any pressure at all, to like, go to college when you were a kid? JD: So much less than you guys, so much less. And I didn't feel any pressure- at all.

And, the counselors were still not thinking- they were still thinking mostly boys went to college.

My parents- I had also not just no pressure, but I had no guidance, either. And then girls would become secretaries or whatever. Nobody said that. Although, I know people—girls—who did hear that around my age period. So, and then, there was a counselor that [pause] many people admired. He wasn’t very helpful though, no clue about where to go to college. And so, here's how I chose my first college. [light laughter] Well, there wasn't anything else that I wanted to do. You know, I didn't want to work or, you know, I didn't- there was no plans on getting married.

So, I happened to go on a date with this guy from my church at the time and he was playing football at Sacramento State.

So after our date, we drove up and walked around Sac State, and so then I applied there. And I wasn't interested in him. You know, it wasn't like I was following him. I was like, “Oh, okay, I guess I'll apply to Sac State.” And I got in and- so then I didn't care for it. You know, it was mostly a commuter school. So then the next year I went to Napa Community College, and then I went to UCSB [University of California, Santa Barbara] after that.

SC: Okay. Um, a lot of people often mention, like ‘cliques’ in high school and how they were a lot more like, solidified, back when you went to high school. Would you agree with this? JD: They were more solidified? SC: Like in terms of like, there were groups of people, like people didn't- I don't know- like there were “the jocks”...

JD: Uh-huh. Hm. I think it was less in high school- when I was in high school. SC: [pause] Okay.

Mr. B [Evan Blasingame, the current U.S. History teacher] mentioned something about a “donkey basketball game?” What- was that a big thing?

JD: What was that? [collective laughter] Yeah! I don’t know if it was a big thing, but they had it almost every year. Where- you would ride a donkey. [collective laughter] Well, only the boys would ride donkeys. And yeah, was it the- [pause] see I can't remember if it was the- if they brought any ringers in or if it was just the kids that rode the donkeys? I don't- I'm not remembering who was riding the donkeys. I could easily find out by asking some former high school friends. But, yeah! There was donkey basketball.

We had the Globetrotters come too, if you know who they are. [interviewers nod] They're those Harlem Globetrotters. That was fun. That was more entertaining than the donkeys, I think. I want to go back to the “girls” thing. [past question about girls’ restrictions in school] So one thing that was really good, that was different is the boys and the girls were in different P.E. classes.

And when we played basketball, they had a rule for the girls, that you couldn't run the whole court.

So the girls had a chance to really excel together, and not be in any kind of competition with the boys at the same time. And, we had a really good P.E. teacher, you know, very organized and you would play a lot of the time. You exercise first, and then you would play whatever the seasonal game was. So your team could go to the halfway mark, and then you stopped, except for there was a person called the ‘rover’ and the rover girl, one on each team, could run the whole court.

So then what we would do is like if you were the rover, when you dribbled, you would do it really as hard as you could and run as far as- like you can almost run the whole length of the basketball court- [laughter] well, because you could only dribble three times! [Jill slaps the table]

Oh, I forgot about that! You could dribble three times

You wanted to get as much mileage out of those dribbles as you could. And once again, it was low expectations. It was like, “Well, you know, you can't really do much without killing yourselves.” So yeah, that was the rule all the way through high school, these kind of very restrictive basketball games where you wouldn't even really get very tired. The other ones you could run, though.

We played field hockey. And did we play soccer? I think we did. And volleyball.

So then, I told you too, I was gone for ten years until I came back to teach. Everything had changed in those ten years. So from ‘67 to ‘77, the girls could wear pants- because we had to wear skirts or dresses, we couldn't wear any pants. So they were in pants. The student body president was a girl. A lot of the officers for the class president and vice president were girls.

And when I was in school, you could only be the secretary

Well, not like there was a rule, but, it just didn't happen. You wouldn't think, “Oh should we elect a girl for the president of the sophomore class?” It just didn’t happen. So it was this huge change. And then Title IX came along at that same time. And so there were girl’s sports. And, you know, they had to be given equal opportunity for sports. So that was a really positive change. SC: You said your teachers were some of, like, the most important people, or most influential people in your life. What were some of the lessons that you learned from them?

We wrote some plays. It was mind-opening. And so that was a really, really good lesson

JD: One of them- there was Walter Hampe was one of them. And he was a social studies teacher. And when we were seniors, he created this new class that was called “humanities.” And so, in that class, we studied people from all around the world and he just brought in a lot of- we did some art that we looked at and it was just mind-opening. I know we would do skits, I don't remember why, but oral reports, and we wrote some plays. It was mind-opening. And so that was a really, really good lesson.

And then Peter Ainslie was the other one

And he was just a very creative English teacher. I can remember we had one lesson where he was playing some classical music and he wanted us to write down the emotions that we felt just by listening to it, and I was like, “What? Okay, I can try that.” [light laughter] And another one, we had a picture of J. Robert Oppenheimer, the father of the atomic bomb, and he said, “What do you think he's thinking?” So, it was, you know, they just were kind of creative lessons and- they made you think, which was good.

SC: And kind of shifting towards, like, some brief questions about college. What drew you to history? Like, did this interest align with dreams of what you wanted to do as a kid, if you had any?

It was just, kind of “stories.”

JD: No, just process of elimination, because it was my least objectionable. [laughter] And it didn't have any math, which I wasn't great at. So it was sort of by default- and I liked it. I was interested in it. And I way in the back of my mind thought I might be a teacher but I wasn't passionate about it, like my daughter, she knew she wanted to be a teacher.

SC: Hm. Was there like a noticeable or notable transition from, like, the small rural high school you went to, like, a relatively large college?

I think at the time it was about 11,000 students. UCSB, I mean.

JD: [pause] UCSB, yes. The other ones weren't that influential to me, and they weren't big. But also, it was during the time of the Vietnam War protests. So it was quite an experience coming from here and having a conservative—politically—political parents. And also, we grew up [with the idea that] the government was telling you the truth and, you know, they were wise and they knew what they were doing. And then, to have this experience of going, “Wait a minute, this is wrong.” And, you know, I began to form that opinion. And so, seeing the protests and having some experience with that, and- the bank was burned- the Bank of America was burned at UCSB. The Bank of America in Isla Vista was set on fire and burned. And the roads were blocked by students, so the fire trucks couldn't get in, and the police couldn't get in. And there was one incident where the students tipped over a police car while there was a policeman still inside it, so it was [slight pause] quite an experience coming from here.

SC: Did you participate in these protests?

JD: I did. I participated in one. I began to observe that when people were protesting, they would be influenced by the group to go too far. So maybe there- well it's exactly like what's happening today with the Palestinian protests, and the, you know, and the Israel protests. So, you know, they have a good idea, you know, that you might agree with, but then pretty soon, they're screaming and getting violent, and saying hateful things. \

So, I didn't like to be in those because they could get violent.

And also, I had the idea that I could be influenced. And kind of like- well, I'll skip that. But anyway, I was in one where- it was a protest against police brutality, because they [UCSB students] had a curfew. And we were supposed to stay inside of our rooms in Isla Vista. And I was with my boyfriend and another couple [past curfew]. And we were just out on the balcony, watching, and then the police stopped the car and then ran in [into the dorm facility] and we ran into a room and then, they came in and took- my boyfriend was, he was Mexican-American.

And so they- I wouldn’t say they beat him up, but they hit him. And so, they were going into homes and beating people up. And so, I was at a protest where we were protesting police brutality. And I got stuck not being able to go home because after you left the protest, they started chasing people down. And what happened was, my friends got arrested, and I didn't. I was sitting there and the cops took them away. And then one cop came up to me and he goes like this [Jill mimics the ‘offering hand’ gesture] for me to reach up for his hand and I sat there like this. [light laughter] [Jill mimics a motionless position, hands clasped in front of her chest as she looks up] So he didn't take me, and then that was the end. So then they came with tear gas. And this- they called it a ‘pepper fogger’ I think- they would just spray pepper gas. So, we all split and I wasn't with anybody I knew.

A bunch of people were going down to the beach and then they had a helicopter with a searchlight, and they were looking for people on the beach.

And so I was kind of hiding behind this bush [light laughter] with this other girl I didn't know. And there was an apartment building here, and there were guys looking out and they go, “Hey, come on, come on, come on.” [mimes ‘come here’ motion with hands] So I went in there, and we were all just being really quiet, thinking, you know, “If the police know we're here, they're going to come in.” So, it turned out the people upstairs- I don't know if they were peeking on their balcony- but the police ran in and got them and we could hear this big scuffle going on up there. So then, eventually, it all quieted down, but I stayed there all night. I just slept on the floor and there were a bunch of people in there, I didn't know any of them, but we were just waiting until the morning came and I went home.

SC: Were there any serious accidents or anything like that that happened during those protests at your college?

JD: There was a boy that was shot, and killed. Yeah. Yeah.

SC: And, he was shot by police or…?

JD: Um, I think so. I was just reading about it recently. And I think so- because the first report said it wasn't them, but- I'd have to reread it. Yeah.

SC: Okay. And on like a normal day, like, walk us through the quad. Like students- are they like, would you say it's similar to what they're doing now? Or what was like the general pastime when you were not studying?

JD: Well, there was no quad. [at St. Helena High School] So there was- where was that lawn? You know where it was, it was between Vintage Hall and the 100 wing, where they have that little amphitheater now, that was a lawn. And so, that's where people would hang out. And they were kind of hanging out in their cliques. So just talking, you know, probably what you guys do. Was the campus open then, for leaving? I don't think so. Well, there was no place to go.

Because, when I was a senior, they built A&W [Allen & Wright Restaurant that currently stands just down the street from the High School].

And so before that, there wouldn't have been a Giugni’s, [Giugni’s Deli on St. Helena’ Main Street] or a place to get food. So there was a cafeteria- are those buildings still there? I don't think they are. So there was a funky cafeteria.

SC: [giggles] And kind of the same question for UCSB. Was there kind of, like, a similar like area for hanging out and stuff like that?

JD: I didn't. I didn't hang out anywhere. There'll be fraternities and sororities.

SC: Hm. Okay. What was the most interesting or memorable class you took? Or a professor?

JD: In all of college, it would have been my springboard diving class when I was getting my teaching credential.

[light laughter] So I have a history credential, but I also have a P.E. credential, which I never really used, except for when I coached basketball for two years (not very well). So yeah, that was it. And then within academics, there was this really great U.S. History teacher at UCSB. And, it was in a big hall because everybody really liked him. He was kind of funny and knowledgeable. You know, a good teacher, they make it interesting while they're telling their stories. I remember he was good.

SC: Ok. And then kind of back to your teaching years? What did you- you mentioned that you were teaching part time, like, what were you doing with the rest of your time? Were you working at another job or anything like that?

JD: No. So the way I got the job, I was living in Santa Barbara. I went back to Santa Barbara after I graduated.

And after I got my teaching credential, I thought, “I'm not going to do that!” And so I went down there and I was working at the Devereux school [Devereux School of Autism Research], and it was all kinds of interesting kids, we'll call them. And then I quit after two years, and I had a year off. And my rent, I think, was $42 a month. I lived at a little hippie house, out kind of at the bottom of the mountains. I think five of us lived there but- lived separately, you know, we weren't living as a related group in any way. And, so I was running out of money. Like, I think I was down to $300. And I thought, “You know, I should probably get a job.” [light laughter]

So I was looking for jobs down there. And I happened to [meet up with] my sister in law. She wasn't my sister in law yet, but she was dating my brother. And she had gotten hired as a P.E.- but mostly dance teacher at St. Helena. So I had come home to visit, and she was going in [to SHHS] to sign some papers or something, so I went with her, and she was signing the papers. And then the principal at that time was Walter Hampe, the one that I told you I admired so much, and so I was like, “Hey!” I went in, and I was talking to him, and I had mentioned in the course of it, that I had a teaching credential with no ulterior motives at all. So then, I went back home—to Santa Barbara—and I got a phone call from him, and they had a really big freshman class coming in. It was like 120 kids, and they didn't really have enough teachers to teach them.

So he asked me if I wanted to come and teach for two periods

And I thought about it and called him back, and I said, “I really need three, or I can't. I need to at least make that much money.” So when you're hired- I was hired to teach three periods, and so that was my contract. And so from there, they could never make me teach more, or ever make me teach less. And it was really the perfect amount for me. I could survive on it, because you could live with, you know, without a lot of money at that time. And so, it was actually ideal for me. So, I would just do stuff. [light laughter] And then after I got married and we had kids, I just was able to do all the stuff, you know, the appointments, and the shopping, and the picking the kids up, and taking them places. And so it was really ideal for me to teach that amount—60% or less.

SC: How has, you know, how did technology affect your classroom?

Are there any memorable moments where things changed, or anything like that? JD: It was huge, eventually. But in the beginning, you had to learn how to work on these computers. And it was very primitive. The computers were like, if you want to backup, you had to push this button [repeatedly taps imaginary computer key on table with finger] to backup each space. And if you want to move up, you have to push this button [taps again with finger] to go up. And then they got better, and we got better.

And you got personal computers, and you could have one in your home.

And in the beginning, there was this place in Napa called Napa Net, [Napa Internet Services] and they were helping you if you had- and we didn't know anything, you know, so we had to call them a lot. And we had a Mac computer [Apple Macbook Computer] and the Mac guy was always so irritated. He’d go: “Ugh, the menu, do you know where the menu is?”—“No, no clue.”—”Okay.” [laughter] I kind of felt sorry for him. Everybody's really nice now, if you call them for help, because they probably get fired if they- [weren’t nice]. But he was just so irritable. And then also, you would have to wait for it to dial up, so you would be sitting there and you would say, “Okay, I want to sign on.” And then you would wait and wait, and then it would finally happen and it was slow.

But eventually, you know, it was great, because by the end it was pretty sophisticated

And I had the grading program that you could post, you know, what the kid’s scores were- not by name, but, you know, by their number. And, it was really good [Jill taps the table] because in my age range, if people are ten years older than me today, like people in their 80s, if you didn't work with computers, they still really struggle and they don't get it. Well I'm sure some do, but you know, they have a really hard time with their phones. And, even people my age, if they didn't learn it as I did, still have some trouble.

So it was really perfect for me because I'm not helpless with my watch, or my phone, or my computer.

SC: Okay. Being a history teacher, do you think that since you've been teaching, since you've been in school, the teaching of American history has changed? Like have there been any events that have been misrepresented in your opinion?

JD: I wouldn't know that. I taught up to the Vietnam War, which was recent for the timeline, especially when I first started.

SC: Hm. [pause] How did the administration of St. Helena—the district—change over the years? I know there were a couple of big, kind of, push-outs. [Sonny makes pushing gesture with hands] JD: Push out? You mean like getting rid of people? SC: Yeah, I think there was a whole…

JD: They got rid of the school board. SC: Yeah. JD: That was a really big deal.

I don't think they should have done it. There were things I disagreed with, with that school board. But for one thing, you lose all the knowledge, you know? Then you get these people who don't have experience with how things operate. But I really think that they just should have stayed with them because they were elected and it would have been two years more, maybe, with them. But I could see why they were unhappy with them. [pause] I think what's happened- so, I may have told you this one when I answered those questions, but when I was hired, there was a superintendent and his secretary.

And then the other thing that technology has done is make more work

And, there is the same number of kids now at the school, if not less, and they had, I think eleven employees when I left. So the superintendent and this person, and that person. A lot of that, I think is related to technology, that- they need people to keep the technology running. So, you know, “Well, oh, let's see. We can disaggregate these kids, and so then we can study and see what their grades are. And then we can make this plan.” You know, I think that that's added somewhat to the work level. It's also gotten way less “hometown.” And way more- there's a certain, I can't say corporate feeling, but I think it's more- not a small town feeling for the people that come.

And there's a huge emphasis on test scores, which wasn't there at all when I started.

Maybe one history test that was, you know, standardized. And so people really end up teaching for the test and worrying about, you know, hoping their kids do well. And then that creates all this tension, I think. This huge tension with the teachers, because they want to look good. And the students who are just like, [does an impression of a nervous student] it’s like the whole world depends on it.

SC: Did you teach APUSH? [Advanced Placement: United States History]

 

JD: I didn't agree with it. I think there's a really good side to it, which is to challenge the students who want to be challenged, and they end up learning more. But, I think it's good for everybody to be with a non-homogenous group, you know? To have kids that aren't the best students or have kids that are really creative in other ways, but they aren't what we all reward is that certain kind of thinking, you know, you know facts.

So I taught, I think AP U.S. History may have been there two more years for me, and then I would have the other kids and they’d say,

“Well, we're the dumb kids.” And they weren't, they were smart.

And then in AP you’re stuck with the same kids throughout the day too, you've got like fifteen kids that you have class with. And then I noticed too that the brighter kids could influence the others. Like I would say, “Well, what does this political cartoon mean?” And they might not be able to get it, but if there was another kid who said, “Oh I can understand that and see it” then that brings everybody along. So I felt like it almost took the yeast out of the bread, you know, and I don't think it was good for the AP kids to be stuck together all day and not experience the other kids.

And it's possible I'm wrong, but anyway. [light laughter]

SC: You and your husband both had kind of an affinity for community and knowing local families just based on the, you know, the newspapers that we've read before we came to interview you. Was this kind of, like the hardest thing when retiring, both of you, from St. Helena?

JD: To- not be part of that anymore? JD: We really walked away, both of us, very comfortably. And it was like, okay, [pats table] we did the best we could, and it's over. And so, we traveled all over the world after that. So yeah, that wasn't hard. And we had friends, so it wasn’t like we were isolated.

SC: Hm. How many people from your graduating class stayed here? Are you in contact with any of them? JD: I wouldn't say a number, there were some. The class I was in wasn't very close. So, you know, there's a handful here. The ones I'm in touch with don't live in town. I have one friend that I've stayed in touch with him all the way along. And then, I recently went to Mike Martini (Michael Martini)- the Martini Winery- [he] passed away, he was in my class, and so I got back in touch with a couple other people. And so we've been in touch a little bit.

SC: Are there any significant families or like kids of families that we would know of that you went to school with? Or know through the high school?

JD: Jeff Warren, do you know him? High School with him. I went with the Martinis. The people that own Sutter Home [Sutter Home Winery], the Trincheros? [pause] I'm sure there are others, I can't think of any right now. All the Pinas, I don't know if you've heard of the Pina family. There’s like eight boys, I think, all are right around the same age and they all married and had kids and so, there has to be some Pinas in the school, right?

It was a much closer community. And all the businesses were locally owned, and operated.

SC: I think I’ve heard the name, probably. A lot of long established St. Helena families, kind of think there used to be like a ‘community buzz’ that existed before phones, or COVID-19. Would you agree with this? JD: Mhm. Yeah.

So, Napa would be the farthest place you would go for anything else.

And so you could just do your shopping here. Yes. And you would see almost most of the people you knew you would see in town and the people that own the businesses, worked in the businesses too. They didn't just hire help and live someplace else. So yeah, that's a big change. And there weren't second homes, which from what I understand has really harmed the neighborhoods because people don't have neighbors, they come every weekend or something. So yeah, I think that part, like I'm not- I don't think, “Oh, too bad St. Helena’s changed. It used to be so much better.” I don't have that mindset. But I do think that's going to really change the town.

That- and the people can't afford to live here.

Unless you're really wealthy, or you've lived here forever, and you can help your kids out somehow.

“We just got word that President Kennedy has been shot.”

SC: And then moving kind of broader in the historical context. Do you have any, like, vivid recollections of major historical events that resonated with you, such as, like, the Civil Rights Movement, like any, like, assassinations, or deaths, or big events? JD: Oh, yeah. Kennedy [John F. Kennedy, 35th president of the United States] was- I was a freshman when Kennedy was assassinated. And we were in the auditorium. And in those days, football was kind of king of certainly all the sports and all the- you know. So, [light laughter] every year we would have this assembly, and the football players would get on the stage and then the coach would go down the line and talk about, you know, what each one did. It was deadly boring, so this was going on and the P.E. teacher, the woman P.E. teacher came onto the platform and she said, And I can remember when she said the word “shot” it was just like, [hits heart with fist] “Oh- gosh.” So anyway, there's this pause, and then the football coach said, “I think- I think Kennedy would want us to continue.” [laughter as she sarcastically imitates her response] “I think so too.” [collective laughter] So we finished the assembly and then we kinda- [were upset] all afternoon. I remember my math teacher was like this, [puts her head in her hands] he was so upset. He just had his head down in class the whole time we [were like],

And then Martin Luther King [Martin Luther King Jr., civil rights activist] too. I

“What do we what do we do?” We just sat there. And, we learned really quickly that he died. I was a freshman in college, I think when he- and he came to Sac State when I was there- and spoke. And so I saw him speak there. So yeah, and then Bobby Kennedy, [Robert F. Kennedy, brother John F. Kennedy] too, those were all quite shocking.

And the whole Vietnam War was even more- that was more disruptive than the Civil Rights movement, I think, as far as the whole country being involved.

But the Civil Rights movement was remarkable and really big news, at that time. All those events were important and influential. OR: Do you have a favorite historical niche? Like, a lot of people are obsessed with Watergate, for example. Do you have something like that?

JD: Mine would just be probably World War Two. I liked that whole Teddy Roosevelt era, too. But yeah, I don't like take one of them and study it really hard or anything like that.

SC: [pause] In your like community or social circle, you know, it could have been whenever, wherever. Do you remember if there was like a broad consensus in terms of reaction to these kinds of events? Or were there any events that caused a divide between you and your friends or your family?

“Abandon Politics, All Ye Who Enter Here”

JD: I don't think that- I would say no. I got more liberal as I went through college, but the one that- my husband's family- he was like, the only liberal in his family and the rest of them were very conservative. So after the election between younger George Bush [George W. Bush] and Al Gore, when it wasn't settled we had Thanksgiving here, and we put a big sign outside that said [light laughter] because they would have been, you know, preaching about wanting George Bush to win. And so, his family, and they admired Trump, [Donald J. Trump] but we haven't really seen them much since all that happened. SC: What was it like to kind of live during the Cold War? A lot of, you know, like, older people in my life that witnessed it talk about just this palpable fear of atomic warfare. Did you feel any of that in your community?

JD: Yeah, as I mentioned, we moved to my uncle's ranch [light laughter] because of it. And I can remember when I was really little, and it would have been before it was eight, because we were in that particular house. I would see an airplane go over, and I’d think, “I bet there's communists in that, spying on us.” I thought they were spying, and so, yeah. And then, just- building the Berlin Wall, that was huge. You know, it was scary. Because we were, we were indoctrinated too, to be so afraid of it, like, “Go to Vietnam, [in reference to the Vietnam War] or else the whole world will be communist. If we don't save Vietnam, we’ll be communists,” you know, within ten years. I mean, that was the mindset of that time.

SC: My dad always talked about this period, right after the Berlin Wall fell in 1990-ish and then, right before 9-11, [the September 11th, 2001 terrorist attacks in the United States] was like, [a] really hopeful time in history. I would agree with that. Yeah. And- because you had the idea that they [communist countries] were all going to turn into these democracies, and, you know, come out ahead, and all of our problems would be solved. [light laughter] Yes, I would agree with that.

SC: And did you notice that kind of, fall apart as 9-11 happened?

JD: Yeah. Yeah, that was shocking. That might have been one of the most shocking things. Yeah, and then everything changed after that. It ratcheted up fear and then, you know, going into Iran or Iraq, I mean.

SC: What personal reward do you think you got most out of traveling so much after your retirement?

JD: Well, in some ways, it was a dream come true. Because, I had always hoped to be able to travel at some point. And then I was able to, you know, to go to so many different places. And so, yeah, just a lot of different experiences. Like walking on the Great Wall of China, or, you know, going to different palaces. We were in Istanbul and saw Hagia Sophia, and the blue temple [Blue Mosque]. I mean, it was just all these things that you hear- the Colosseum, the first time I saw the Colosseum, those kinds of things. It was like things that you always dreamed of seeing to be able to do it.

SC: What is the single most important cultural change or shift that you've like seen in America, like in your time?

JD: I would say the Civil Rights Movement, including women's liberation. Like, coming back to St. Helena High School and finding that change. Yes, I would say the Civil Rights Movement.

JD: Alright. And then last question- aside from your Homecoming picture hanging up in Vintage Hall, [smiling] what would you want to be your legacy at St. Helena High School given that you’ve devoted so much of your life to it? What would you want to leave with your community?

JD: [pause] I don't think in those terms, I don't think of myself as having a legacy. The least I would choose is the Homecoming Queen picture in Vintage Hall. [collective laughter] Did they ask me if I wanted that in there? No, they did not! [laughter]

SC: Okay. Do we just end it? OR: Yeah. Thank you for your time, Jill.

JD: You're welcome, it was enjoyable. You guys are adorable. [collective laughter]