Interviewee: Layla Fanucci

Interviewers: Olive Filippini, Alice Baxter

April 14th 2025

Olive Filippini: This is Alice Baxter and Olive Filippini. I am pleased to welcome Layla Fanucci, whom I am interviewing on behalf of the Saint Helena Historical Society’s oral history program. We are conducting this interview at 4:30 on April 14th, 2025 at the Charter Oak Winery. Welcome Layla, can you begin by telling us where you were born and when you first came to the Saint Helena area?

Layla Fanucci: Okay, well, thank you girls, honored to be here. I was born [in] 1957 in San Francisco, yeah. And I came to the Napa Valley, I think it was 1988 to live permanently, but we had been here many times before, because this was Rob's grandfather's home. And we came many times.

OF: Growing up in San Francisco, what was your childhood like?

LF: Well, I didn’t grow up there. I was born there. And then I grew up—then went to Berkeley—and then I was kind of raised in Menlo Park, Atherton.

OF: Oh, okay.

LF: Yeah, yeah, so I grew up more there. And it was a normal childhood. I had a father who was an architect—a lot of people see that in the paintings, yeah. And I had a mother who was a teacher, and I also taught for 25 years. So, um, brother, sister—you know, normal childhood, normal family in the 1960s.

OF: Could you describe the neighborhood where you grew up or what the atmosphere was like there?

LF: I grew up in a rural, beautiful neighborhood—Menlo Park, Atherton. And my father built a beautiful home when we were a little bit older in Atherton, and it was his—he was an architect, so it was his design. But it was beautiful because it was very rural, a lot of trees, a lot of privacy. It was just beautiful, I remember.

OF: Wow, that sounds beautiful. Were you close with your brother and sister?

LF: When we were younger, yes, we were very close. And then when we were older, not so much—you know, not so much as we got older.

OF: Were there any childhood experiences that stand out as particularly formative for who you are today, maybe artistically or anything else?

LF: Well, it’s interesting—when I did my first solo show in New York City, there was a writer who critiques your work and looks at your work. And this was after being a music teacher for 25 years. And he said, “I see music in Fanucci’s work,” like the people were the notes and all the music paraphernalia.

And, “I see the architectural part of her work.” And my father was an architect, my grandfather was an architect, and I grew up seeing those kinds of drafts, right? My mother was into music and we were all into music. We all had to play three instruments—whether we wanted to or not, right? And so I think part of what I got from growing up was the architectural part, the music part, the teaching part, you know—and I just put it all together.

OF: Yeah, that’s amazing. What instruments were those?

LF: I played the clarinet—piano first, and then the clarinet. And then when I became a teenager—now this is the 1960s, when folk music was just coming out—I wanted to play the guitar, you know, so I begged for a guitar. And my parents were like, “That’s for hippies—that’s not for, you know, trained musicians,” right? Of course, I loved it that much more, right? So I studied the guitar and that was my favorite instrument, but piano and clarinet too.

OF: That’s amazing. So you emphasized—like you emphasized being drawn to artistic activities as a child and definitely influenced by your parents—but what was school like for you? Were there any teachers or subjects that had a big impact on you?

LF: Well, I was in a small private Catholic school called Saint Pius, and it was really small. But I did love music. We had, you know, a little band, right? And I loved anything creative—I can see, looking back. Most artists love to create—that’s just who they are, you know—and it doesn’t matter what you create: a garden, a child, you know, a painting, a meal. It doesn’t really matter what you create—you just draw to that. And so I definitely did that as a younger person.

OF: Did you have a favorite childhood book or movie or piece of music that you often look back on that inspired you?

LF: I think when I was about in the third grade, The Sound of Music came out, and that was such a great movie for me because it encompassed everything that I love. And I loved that music, you know, so I studied it as a young girl. And music was definitely something that was part of who I am, you know. And when I was about maybe 12—very, very young—I knew the guitar pretty well, and so I was teaching my friends how to play the guitar. And then the parents would say, “Well, can I pay you to teach the sister or the brother of my friend?” And so I actually was giving lessons starting at about 12 or 13.

OF: Wow, that’s amazing. And did you ever create or compose any music for fun?

LF: All the time. That teaching I kept going through high school, and by the time I was a freshman in high school, I had 30 students. And so I would go to school—you know, like you girls—and then I’d come home and I’d have a 3 o’clock, 3:30, 4 o’clock, 4:30, and I would take like five or six students every day. And I did this all through high school, right? And then we did performances as we got more well known. And I did it through college. So all the time that I was going to school, I was teaching music to the kids.

OF: Wow, that’s amazing. And switching gears, can you share some details about your family’s history and heritage?

LF: My mother was born in a little town in France called Pau. She lived there until she was in her early 20s, and then she got a scholarship to UC Berkeley.

Very French mother. My father was born and raised in Istanbul, Turkey. And he was born and raised in Istanbul, Turkey, and he got a scholarship to UC

Berkeley. So he was studying architecture, she was studying education and teaching, and that’s where they met. So—and then they had three American children in the 1960s—that’s all I need to say. My parents were very European parents who came to the United States and wanted to be Americans.

OF: Oh, okay. So what was that like growing up with grandparents from Turkey and France?

LF: Well, the grandparents lived in France and Turkey. They did come to visit, but it was culture shock—is what it was. It was culture shock because Turkish, you know—it was culture shock—and French, very different. And then of course they’re in America, you know? And so it was definitely three different cultures in one household, for sure.

OF: Yeah, that sounds like a lot.

LF: It was.

OF: How did your parents’ journey to UC Berkeley in the 1960s shape your perspective on education and opportunity?

LF: Well, they were both very pro-education.

OF: Yes.

LF: Yeah. And you have to remember, my father came to this country not speaking the language, and he graduated knowing four languages.

OF: Wow.

LF: And he graduated top of his class in architectural design—which to me is amazing—not knowing the language.

He learned it quickly. My mother also believed in education. She was a teacher. She taught French and Spanish for, I don’t know, over 40 years. So education was important to them. But they were both really bright and really smart. And I couldn’t go to a school in a foreign country and become top of my class in the language that I don’t speak. I don’t know how they did that.

OF: Yeah, that’s incredible they did that.

LF: Yeah, I think it’s pretty amazing too.

OF: And it makes sense why they pressured you so much to do three instruments and to take on students. That does make sense. What classes did you take in college? Like what was your major?

LF: My major was sociology with a minor in music.

And I remember going—I went to San Francisco State University. My husband went to San Francisco State University, and we graduated there. And I remember going into music and thinking, “You know what? I already know a lot. Now let me figure out the way people think.” Sociology and psychology. The way the world thinks, the way—you know—because I didn’t understand families and people. And, you know, the political environment was difficult. No more than now—probably more difficult now. But I wanted to figure all that out, so I went into psychology, and then I eventually graduated with sociology. So I have my BA in sociology, and it really did help because when you deal with any profession, you have to deal with people.

OF: Exactly.

LF: And how you deal with people is so important. So I learned all that. And I learned about my family—because remember, I’m coming from three different cultures, so it’s a bit confusing for a young person.

OF: Yeah.

LF: You know, and so I learned all that and kind of figured it out. I had the music down, you know, so that was a good marriage—for me. So music, but primarily Bachelor of Arts in sociology.

OF: Do you think that the sociology part translates in your art today and how you shape your art?

LF: I don’t know if it’s how I shape my art, but it’s how I present my art to the world. So when I went to these consultants I told you girls about—in New York City, remember? I was a music teacher. I didn’t know anything about art. But I had this body of work that I was presenting to them, and my question to them was, “Can I make this a business?” And they told me 90% of artists don’t support themselves on their art. It’s only 5%. And I said, “Well, I need to be one of the 5%. I have three kids, they are all in college. Otherwise, I go back to teaching.” And they—you know—that was my goal and my objective. Now, tell me again what the question was?

OF: Oh, it was just about what classes you took in college. Oh—I said, do you think that the sociology part shaped your…

LF: Okay, now I’m back on track here. So, what happened was when I started to present my art, they would say to me—these consultants—“You know, artists don’t like to do that business side. They don’t. They just like to create.” And I totally understand that. But because I had this teaching side and this background, and parents who were very—you know—very much work-oriented and into education, I was able to do both and present my art in a way that—artists don’t like to do—talks about the art. So I tell everybody. I tell them what I do, how many paintings I’ve sold, how many books I’ve written, how much each painting sells for—because that goes up in time, and it matters. And I’m able to present just the facts about my work, and I think a lot of artists don’t like to do that. And I think that’s part of my success.

OF: And art is a very mysterious job, and I feel like a lot of people don’t understand what goes into becoming an artist and what it takes, so that’s very helpful.

LF: 100%. And if the artist can’t explain that, then it just leaves it out in the open air—whereas I’m able to tie the pieces together and people say, “Oh, that makes sense.”

OF: Yeah, that’s beautiful. What are some of your earliest and most cherished memories of visiting Saint Helena? I know you’ve mentioned how you were a teacher at the Catholic school, so what was that like?

LF: Well, we came here—I met my husband in 1979—and his grandfather and grandmother lived here. So we were coming—I was coming here—since 1979, yeah? And then we moved in the ’80s. I want to say ’88, something around there when David was born, yeah? And we moved here permanently. Yeah. And my favorite memories of Saint Helena? Oh, there’s so many. Our children were raised here. This is the most wonderful, beautiful small town. You know, we travel all around the world, and I’m always happy to come back here.

OF: Yeah.

LF: You know, the people—as you know—are wonderful. I just love everything about it.

OF: Do you have any specific people that you remember here still?

LF: When I was younger, when my kids were being raised, I remember all the people that helped them—you know, their teachers, their music teachers, their—you know, the principal, the nuns—and all the people who had such a big hand in their growing up. And when I got older—and, you know, my kids were grown and on their own—it’s the community that supported the wine business, the community that supported the art. You know, just really good and wonderful people.

OF: Yeah… [pause in interview due to washing machine noise] Moving backwards a little, when did you meet Rob and how?

LF: I met him in 1970—well, I married in 1979, so I met him three years earlier in 1976. And he was a student, I was a student, and he eventually—then we went to San Francisco State University together and then we got married. And then he went to Golden Gate Law School, and then he went to NYU and got his master’s in tax law. So that’s where Michelle was born. That’s why I say she’s a born New Yorker. So, we met—you girls have to do the math. I think we’ve been married for 46 years, but I count the three years of dating before.

OF: Yeah, I would count that. What inspired or how does tradition play a role in your approach to wine making, especially with the emphasis on hand press natural fermentation?

OF: Well, now remember, my husband makes the wine, the family, the kids and now Luca, our grandson, they all are participants in the wine making, but Rob is the winemaker. And he makes, I don't make the wine I just like to tell people I share and drink it. That's it, right? He makes wine like his grandfather showed him with the tools I showed you girls, with those redwood bats, they punch it down, they press it in a 120 year old basket press. All the wines, thousand cases a year, and they're all red lines, yeah? And the recipe has not changed, so it's a natural use fermentation, we don't add chemicals to the wines and we don't add sugar to the wines. Just as his grandfather taught him. So that recipe is the same, different than any other winery, because it's very time consuming, most wineries don't do that, right? It takes a lot of time to make wine like this, yeah? And most winerys don't have these tools, you know, that are over 90 years old, you know.

OF: Yeah.

LF: So that tradition has been passed on so well with all these generations, and then of course, Rob started Charter Oak Winery, 1998. So we're 27 year harvest, yeah, but like I told you girls, don't forget the 80 years where every harvest wine was being made downstairs in this historical cellar for 80 years, for family and friends.

OF: Yes.

LF: So, 80 and 27, over 100 years of winemaking going on down there

OF: Yes

LF: And never a harvest where there wasn't wine being made.

OF: Wow, that's, that's pretty cool.

LF: Yeah, yeah.

OF: This is a slight switch. What did, I think, I believe you started to paint, at 41?

LF: I was in my early mid 40s and I was teaching at the Catholic school and the long, the short story, you have the long story in the book, yeah.

And the short story was that I wanted to, we were living on Scott Street right here in town when we were raising our kids. And I wanted a piece of live art. You know, what I thought live art was an original painting, you know, because, I mean, Giclées are beautiful, poster’s beautiful. They're all beautiful, but I wanted live art. so I went around all the towns here. I couldn't find anything, so I said, I'll do it myself. Little Red Hen story, right?

I went in the backyard. I got a big board, six by five, and I threw paint on it. looked a little bit like Jackson Pollock, because I didn't know I was doing it. I just threw paint on it. I brought it to Allan’s here in a frame in town and I said, “ell, it's big, it's got a lot of color, it's gonna be a piece of live art so you frame it.” And he looked at me and he said, “can I let it dry first?” I mean “oh, okay.” And so he did and he brought it back with his beautiful frame and I put it in my living room on Scott Street and there it was, a live piece of art, right? Big, colorful. It's in the first book,

OF: Okay

LF: . . .that picture of that painting and during that year nine people, we have our parties and dinner parties, were like, “I love that piece of art. I love that painting, who painted it” and I'd tell them, “I did.” “Oh, will you paint me a painting?” So during that year, I'm still teaching yeah? The Catholic School, and I had my private students as well after, and I painted nine paintings for these friends, and that's when I got addicted that year. I thought, “I love doing this, and they love buying it. Can I make this a business?” Then I quit teaching in 1999. I was in my early mid forties and I thought the first thing I gotta do is build a body and I built 250 paintings. I painted all day long. 12 hours a day. I had so much fun. Everyday. I brought that body of work to the New York consultants and that was my question, “Can I create a business?”

OF: That's amazing. And did you ever get, I know there's people who talk of writer's block. Was there ever a “painter's block” or . . .

LF: Never. Now, the 250 paintings that I presented to the consultants in New York City, it was everything. I did landscapes, I did portraits, it was just all coming out, and that was their advice to me. “Whoa, you know, even though these are your paintings, this all has been done before. Landscapes and portraits have been done before, “so you need to”, that was the great advice I got, “In order to market you, you have to create a style and a style that no one paints in the world.”

OF: Wow

LF: And that was when they said, “Go home, give me seventeen paintings” and for the next couple of years I was just painting for them. Now, on this side I was selling them all . . .

OF: Yeah.

LF: So I was happy, but on that side they were looking for a style no one paints in the world. It was only when I developed the cityscapes, paintings on top of each other with a layer color in between that they said it was funny because, always one line, “Meet me in New York”, and I did. and that's when I met Walter.

OF: There you go, that’s straight out of a movie

LF: Yeah, it really is and he gave me a solo show in his gallery, in those galleries, it's not all the artists coming in, it's one artist that commands the whole gallery. So it's quite scary.

OF: Yeah

LF: I remember, I've never had a show before,

OF: Yeah

LF: And now my cityscape paintings will cover the whole gallery for three months and support the gallery for three months.

OF: Yeah. That's quite intimidating

LF: It was. I almost didn't do it.

OF: How did art and wine making come together in your life, like blending these two passions?

LF: That happened about 10 years later, so I started in I think in 1997, six or seven there. Rob started the winery in 1998, and in about ten years or so, we combined here at Charter Oak the wine and the art. Now, that was, I want to say, my husband says it's a perfect marriage of art and wine, because the wine helps the art, the art helps the wine. He's really right in that because that's when the wine sales, you know, skyrocketed and we get to sell every—we’re lucky enough to sell every bottle. And the art sales also went

up and I think people love to, as we host by appointment tours and tastings here, and they love to learn about the wine in an artisan way, right? And they love to learn about the art and in the meantime, we tried the wines. So we set focus on wine and then art and we tried the wines. And they loved that, and the merger was a great merger. So I told you girls I've sold, to date, 489 original paintings, huh? And I think that the wine just brings the people in, the art, brings the people in, and the combination is a great marriage, because people love it. right?

OF: Yeah

LF: So it proved to be a good formula.

OF: Yeah, I definitely see that as like a beautiful combo. Did you ever create, I see behind there's some wine labels, do you do that for the wine?

LF: I do two wine labels for the wine, and then the rest of them are the traditional label that you have, so I do Uncle George and that's the painting right there, and Uncle George is my uncle, and my side has a winery still going on today in France.

OF: Wow.

LF: So the grandchildren, my uncle George passed away I think two or three years ago. He was in his mid-nineties; smoker, drinker, lived a long life and passed on the winery to his children and grandchildren. So we put Uncle George oh, I think 15, 16 years ago on the bottle, my painting, because Robert wanted people to know that in our blend, you both have a blend here, there is Cabernet Sauvignon, but there's also other varietals. In the “Uncle George”, the one with the painting, all cab grapes and then I have a second label, it's the “Zinfandel Mind”, and that is my, that painting is my version of what happens when you drink too much Zin. So, and it's called the “Zinfandel Mind”, so he calls that Zin, the “Zinfandel Mind”. And when you see that one, you know that every great in this back half acre is in that bottle. So this is our Estate Zin. He has three Zins, but he wants you to know, “okay, this is estate, every grape is grown in that back half acre, so what can I do? I'm gonna put Layla's art on it.”

OF: Aw.

LF: So the “Zinfandel Mind” is all thin, estate. “George” is all Cab and is my uncle and those are my only two labels. He has all the rest.

OF:Well, that's beautiful.

LF:Thank you.

OF: I'm glad you got to blend your art

LF: Yeah, yeah.

OF: Have you, how have you seen Saint Helena change over the years, particularly regarding family owned wineries versus larger corporations?

LF: That's a good question. It's a good question. You know what has been a little bit hard for me is to see the big corporations coming up and buying out the small wineries.

OF: Yeah, I noticed that as well.

LF: And that part is hard for me, you know? But, you know, when we came here 40 years ago, there were a lot of mom and pop wineries, you know, going on, and of course, many of them have retired in that time, but many of them had been bought out by big corporations. I think the one that sticks out the most, there's many, is the Mondavi winery.

OF: Yeah

LF: It was probably like, yeah, but there's many, right? And I would think it would be sad to not see the history of how a small family winery still goes on today. I mean, I have no control over if our children and Luca is the only grandson, so thankfully we have one.

OF: Yes.

LF: But I have no control over if he would want to continue, right? Or if everybody would say, “we're gonna sell,” we don't know, right? But it would be a travesty to me if all the wineries were large corporations and especially if the history of these families was not, you know, recognized because it's what people love most about Charter Oak.That cellar that I took you there.

OF: Yeah

LF: That's a cellar built in 1900 and I can tell you the history affects people, it even affects children. you know, and so I would love for the history to stay in some and that's why what you girls are doing is so wonderful, you know, and the books that I've written I always put the history in it here. And let's hope that 50 years from now, right? Because most of my children probably will be gone, right? We’ll be gone for sure . . . that, what happens with Luca, he'll be the gatekeeper. Let's hope it stays.

OF: Yes, I'll make sure.

LF: Good girl.

OF: What are your thoughts on the increase in costs of living in Napa Valley and its impact on the local culture?

LF: You have some great questions. Some big questions, some beautiful questions, and it is an impact. I'm just going to speak for the wineries, the restaurants and the people who live here. That's everybody, right? It's a huge impact and the problem is it takes out a lot of people. I can tell you we're still here. 27 years,at Charter Oak Winery, we're still here with two fires with COVID and all that went on, we are still here because we have the ability and the good fortune to sell everything we make, and we all have to work seven days a week.

OF: Yes

LF: But you know, I always tell people when you love what you do, it's not, it doesn't feel like work. It feels like a joy and a privilege. But if we didn't sell all that we make in term of the paintings and the wine, I don't know how we would be able to continue. So the sad part for me is it excludes a lot of gray wineries, restaurants, families that just can't afford to continue.

OF: Yeah, exactly

LF: And that for me, is sad.

OF: Yes

LF: That I don't want only the wealthy to be able to share their gift and talent. I want everybody to share.

OF: Yes, and what do you hope your contributions through both art and wine bring to the Napa Valley community and beyond?

LF: I would really love for the art and the wine to share history. And that means, well, two things, the history here and the unique way of making wine, which is the way they used to make it in Europe and all that. And with the art, a unique art form and the combination of the two, I would love for that to live on. But, not just the beautiful handcrafted wines, the unique art, the history of family, passing on generation to generation to generation, that art and wine, that unique art form.

Like I would love 100 years from now, I told you the little boy, a fourth grader once asked me, “Who will live here a hundred years from now?” That’s a question I think about all the time. In a hundred years, will this place be a Chinese restaurant? Or a restaurant? Or will it still be a winery and an art studio? I hope the art and the wine live — past all of us, and past the next generation.

OF: And if you, on a similar note, if you could preserve one thing about Saint Helena for future generations, what would it be?

LF: History. It would be to know the history of the wineries — when there was very few. Now we have over 500 wineries in the Napa Valley. Families who made that their livelihood. It would be the history of the buildings here, the town, the lifestyle. The lifestyle is so different then, than it was now and we don’t really know anything about that.

I tried with a lot of historical societies and people in history that were interested in history to share photos of the cellar, if a possible museum came up in Saint Helena or the history of the family here. And there are other, many small family wineries, but the problem is, when you sell, you lose that history.

Will Robert Mondavi Winery still have the Margaret Room? Will they still have the history when they remodel everything? We hope so — because he was such a prominent figure. Or will it be erased and put to the side?

So I think the thing that we need to hang onto is the history — what happened before us, what is it like now, and what will it be in the future.

OF: I completely agree. What do you hope your children and grandchildren remember most about you?

LF: That’s a great question. First, I hope they’ll remember that they were loved beyond measure — and that I was kind and good to them. That’s number one. Because if you do good work and your children don’t love you, what does it matter?

OF: Yeah

So, I hope that they’ll learn that, that they were deeply loved, #1. I also hope that they learn from me the entrepreneurial spirit — on how to take what you love to do and make a business out of it, make it something successful. Because in that success, you can grow. You could have the best wine and the best art in the world, and nobody buys anything, you’re done. So the success only gives you the ability to grow, and then in the ability to grow, I hope they learn, then you share, and you give back. So it’s a full circle for me. So I hope they know they’re loved, I hope they look at what we’ve done with the art and wine and say “Okay, they took their passions, made a business out of it, they made enough to keep going, right? And they made enough to share. And that is the full circle for me.

OF: What advice would you give your younger self, as a mother and artist, looking back now?

LF: I would say: “don’t worry so much. Have more faith.” You know faith is something we all have, but we don’t always use it. At least I didn’t. So, I had faith — but then I’d worry about everything.

OF: Yes, I can relate to that.

LF: And what’s the point of that, right? So I would say just have more faith that your history, your life is mapped out for you, and you don’t need to worry so much. Just have more faith that God Is watching you, and controlling what's going to happen is going to happen. And what good does worrying do? It doesn’t do anything. So I would say, to my younger self I’d say “don’t do that.” I try to do it less now, but I did a lot when they were younger..

OF: Did you ever take business classes or anything that made you understand the business part of art and winemaking more? Or do you wish you had?

LF: Well you know, I think what happened to me was I had the teaching side, so I had a little bit of the business side. Then I developed the art side and got a body and then I went to some really good people for advice.

OF: Okay

LF: And I think that . . . I know one of the consultants said to me, “You may be marketable material,” when I went, “You may be able to make a living out of art and paintings because if you pull in that business side with the artistic side, that’s the only way you’re going to do it.” And most artists fail because they don’t want to do the business side — they just want to do the creating side. But the business background I had from teaching all those years and so I think combining the two, when I combined the two, I did get feedback —where people would say, “Don’t tell people how many paintings you’ve sold, or how much you make for each painting.” And I would say, “No — those are the facts that I have to share because that’s part of the business.”

OF: Yeah

I think that the teaching part helped with the art side. But I also took the courage to never, would be to brag or anything, but to be factual about where I am in this business, art business, and how to get to the point where I can make a living.

Marlo Thomas, as you know, wrote a book called It Ain’t Over Till It’s Over, and she included 60 women who reinvented their lives, had a business and changed over. Mine was teaching to art, and they became successful in their businesses. She wanted it not to be a hobby, but they became successful. And she said to me, I think I was chosen out of thousands of people because she said to me, “How many paintings did you sell in 2011?” I said, “Thirty two.” And she said “How much did you make?” And I told her, and “How much was your most valuable painting sold?” And it was one hundred thousand for me that year. And then she said “How much did you make as a music teacher?”. And then she went home and did the math. And to inspire people, never to brag, but to inspire people, she said, “Layla made more painting and selling her paintings in one year than she would have made had she been teaching for 32 years.”

OF: Wow.

LF: So my goal was to make a living out of it and after I don't know how many years 10, 12 years, 15 years, I can't remember —or 2011. That was the year she, she talked about that. It happened. 32 years.

OF: Wow, that’s so inspiring. Do you have any advice for kids who want to go that entrepreneur route and any tips or …

LF: I actually have a lot of people come to me and ask whether they want to be a musician, a writer, a painter, anything creative. Those are tough jobs to get into because I always say to people there's no map. So if you want to be a nurse, you go to nursing school, you graduate and you apply, right? You want to be a teacher, you get your current teachers credential and you apply. If you want to be a writer, you're on your own.

If you want to be a singer and you write songs and you play really well, no place to go, right? Same thing with painting. So, my advice— so it's difficult to break in, but this is my advice and I think it's the advice that was given to me, and I think it's a good piece of advice: “Create something that no one creates in the world.” That was a quote, “in the world.” I was sitting on her couch in Gretchfield, New York, and she said that to me, and I thought “ How am I gonna do that?”

OF: It was like asking the impossible.

LF: Well, I just, you know, just I didn't speak. And then it was followed by “Go home, give me seventeen paintings” and she shoved me out the door. But I remember thinking, how do I create something that no one creates in the world? Man is pretty daunting. Most people will say “Okay I'm gonna do something. where I know I can go to school and get a job, right?

But my advice would be that, just that; create something that no one does.

And you know, let's say you're a singer, have a sound that no one has, you know? Go out of the box in that direction. And the second thing I would say is you really do have to work 24 seven, seven days a week, which we both did. But when people come and say, “ Oh I want to paint part time and do this and that, and play golf.” You can't do that. You've got to focus in and just focus on that craft and do it all day.

OF: So you really have to love it.

LF: You have to love it because if it's not your passion and you don't love it, you're not going to want to put those hours. I paint sometimes eight hours and it seems like 15 minutes. I have to put my timer on all the time if I have an appointment because I'll paint it right through it. I had to put one today. I had a two o'clock appointment and I had to put the timer on to those. If I'm painting, you lost me. I'm gone. Because I love it so much.

OF: That's a beautiful thing. That not all people find

LF: That’s right and that would be my third piece of advice is really find something you love to do, not what your mom thinks or your dad, well meaning everybody, but what's your heart calling? What's in your heart? What's something that you really, really wanna do? And you wouldn't mind doing it 24 seven? All that will make for a success. Then find something that's unique to the world and then work your little tail off.

OF: That’s very helpful. A couple more questions — how did community support play a role in the development and growth of Charter Oak Winery?

LF: Community. That's interesting. I think, you know what I think, that the community really values the history here at Charter Oak Winery. Rob's grandparents making wine until 99, 98, right? And I think the community really supports, you know, this history of a gentleman coming from Luca, Italy and his wife in the 1920s. I think the community really supports the art. And I think they're proud of both art and wine. And we try as much as we can to give back to the community and to give back too, like we have San Francisco State University students come every year. When the Catholic school was still going on, we had the children come every year and we try to also give back to the community that serves us so well.

OF: Yeah, the full circle.

LF: The full circle, that’s exactly what is. You have a craft, you become successful, pay all your bills, and then you share it back.

OF: And how did you balance raising a family while continuing your career in art and wine?

LF: Good question. I always tell everybody — especially women — “you can do anything you want, just not at the same time.”

When I had, when I was transferring from music to art I was in my early mid 40s. I got married young — at 21 — and I had my children young. So by that time, they are launching. So I have one at USF, one at UCSF, and one going to college. So now my children don't need me, right? They're on their own, right? So I had the time to focus and to paint.

Someone came and said to me, I want to write, and I said “How many children, do you have?” “Four and they're all under age five”. Not gonna happen at this point. It's just it's just too hard to do all that. I don’t know, I couldn't do it. So what I did is I focused on my children and music, yeah, part time, I was doing part time, so they were the priority, and when they were just ready to launch, I focused on art and painting and making that a business.

So I say look at the timing of what you want to do. Do you have the time to really invest? And that's that number two I said, you have to work all the time. And if you think you can do it part time, it's just not going to succeed. You're going in too many directions. for me. Now, that's just my opinion. So I didn't do everything at the same time.

OF: Yes, so breaking it up in chunks

LF: Exactly. Break it in chunks and luckily, if you have a long life, you can do that.

OF: Yeah, definitely. What do you think has been the most rewarding aspect of being involved in both the Napa Valley wine scene and the local art community?

LF: I think I really enjoy, I really enjoy the people and the community.

His wines are made in a very artisan way, and my art is obviously an artistic endeavor. And I think people that come through the door—we host every day, no more than two tours—and they come from all around the United States, different people, just different backgrounds, and they really appreciate the artistic endeavor here. The community as well. The community as well. So, what I appreciate is their love for art and music, and art and handcrafted wines. They’re not like, “Oh, there’s a lot of wineries.” They’re really appreciative of what we do. So, who would not love that?

OF: Totally. And how do you see the similarities between the creative processes of winemaking and painting? I know you mentioned you weren’t as involved with the winemaking…

LF: I’m not. I know what they do; I just don’t do it because I’m doing the art. But I know what they do, and this is a very very artistic, artisan way of making wine.

When we take people back there—like at harvest—and they see them punching down, and they see them pressing, it’s one thing to tell people, but then when they look at it, they can’t believe it. Their faces are like, “Is this for real?”

I love the way history has come here and stayed here. This is the way they made wine years and years ago. And students who come to learn about Rob’s winemaking skills—San Francisco State University master’s students—they come every year and I love to watch them because they go to a big winery, and then they come to Charter Oak, where he brings out a bat and a 120-year-old basket press.

Their faces just drop, like, “I’m really confused here.” And the questions they ask are, “Why doesn’t anyone else make wine like this?” The answer is: because it’s not cost-effective and it takes a lot of time.

OF: Yeah

LF: So, you know, I love the artisan way that he makes these wines and as long as we continue to sell, we can keep going. And I do love the advice that I got many years ago with the art—create something no one else creates in the world.

There’s a special pride in doing something unique that no one else does and it also makes people who buy my paintings feel like, “This is really different. This is really unique.”

Well you know, it’s worth the value. The value goes up every year depending on how many exhibits you have, how many books you write, how many paintings you sell, and for what amount. All that plays into the value. Each year we reevaluate.

I love that it’s something that no one does, and I love the artisan aspect. If we were producing something that everybody else does, for me, it wouldn’t be as— maybe I don’t want to say fun but maybe inspiring.

OF: Yeah. And do you think—this is a more personal question—but do you think that you and your husband’s shared passion for things has benefited your relationship with each other, but also with the people around you?

LF: Absolutely. CNN did an interview on Rob and the wine, and Rob said this one line that I love. I’m going to quote him—it’s from the little CNN segment. And it says, “You can’t stop me from making wine. It’s in my blood.”

I love that line because if you can’t stop someone, that’s a passion.

He is also the one who said, “The wine supports the art. The art supports the wine. It’s a perfect marriage.”

I think when you both have something that you love to do in an artisan fashion—just like anything you love to do—that you both are in agreement of, it makes for a rich story and life. It supports one another. I think all of that is nothing but positive.

OF: Yeah. And that’s so beautiful that you guys can share that.

LF: And we stay in our lanes though. I don’t tell him how to make wine, and he doesn’t tell me how to produce paintings. We do stay in our lanes.

OF: It’s healthy for relationships to have their own individual—

LF: Yeah, exactly. We do. We do that.

OF: Yes. And finally, how do you envision the next generation of artists and winemakers continuing the legacy you’ve helped uphold?

LF: You know, I see so many talented people in winemaking, painting, music. I see so many talented young people. And I would wish for them—it doesn’t exist now—a place where they can develop their

talents in a way that’s easier than just going out in the world and struggling to get to a better place. I would wish that for all artists, creative people—a place where they can go—because I bet you there are a lot more creative people in the world that don’t, their doors have been closed because they don’t know how to make a living out of it.

OF: Yes

And everybody has to make a living. Imagine how many people that closes the door for.

OF: Exactly

LF: And I want everyone to do what they were created to do.

When I say hearts calling. What’s in your heart that you really want to do? I love nurses, but I never thought of being one. They’re wonderful people, but I’ve always had a heart calling for music and art.

So what is it that’s always pulling you? And then do that, instead of doing what you think will be a great living.

So I wish there were more places where people could go to kind of guide them through that—just like you go to school to learn your craft. For me, that would be awesome.

OF: Yeah, that was beautifully said, and I totally agree with you. Thank you so much, Layla. That was wonderful. I’m really glad you agreed to do this with us. Thank you.

LF: You’re welcome. It’s been my pleasure—truly.